Original title: "Xiao Feng Hong Kong Dialogue Vitalik: Memories of China's journey 10 years ago, the tips of learning Chinese, the future of Ethereum and the role of Hong Kong"

Original source: Wu Shuo Blockchain

At the 2025 venue of the ETHAsia Hong Kong Web3 Carnival, Xiao Feng, Chairman of Wanxiang Blockchain, had an in-depth conversation with Ethereum founder Vitalik, and jointly reviewed his first visit to China in 2014. Vitalik emphasized the important role of Chinese miners, trading platforms and developers in the early development of Ethereum, shared his experience in learning Chinese, and affirmed the rapid progress of the Chinese community in technology directions such as ZK and AI.

Speaking of application development, Vitalik said that the foundation is positioned as an enabler, not a leader, and he hopes that local communities will promote it spontaneously. At present, we should focus on DeFi, RWA, decentralized social interaction and other directions, rather than talking about "applications". He called on the Chinese team to participate in underlying research such as Ethereum POS 2.0 (Beam Chain) to promote the evolution of the agreement. Regarding the "Impossible Triangle", Vitalik believes that the hierarchical architecture has broken through about 70% of the technical bottlenecks. In the future, with the help of account abstraction, ZK technology, L1-L2 data sharing, etc., it is expected to achieve a "WeChat-level" Web3 application experience. He proposed that by sinking service logic to L1, the threshold for L2 development can be significantly lowered, and L2 should also pay for the basic services provided by L1 to achieve value reflux.

In terms of the scope of application of "decentralization and centralization", Vitalik emphasizes that real world such as RWA and identity systems require partial trust mechanisms, and blockchain should reduce trust costs through cryptography and ZK rather than extreme decentralization, thereby improving fairness and efficiency. Regarding the global ecosystem, both sides believe that Chinese and American developers constitute two core forces. Vitalik pointed out that the foundation has limited resources and mainly focuses on underlying construction and educational support, and commercial applications should be promoted by the community. Finally, Xiao Feng suggested that the Foundation set up an office in Hong Kong and restart Hackathon and Workshop in Mainland China. Vitalik responded positively and thanked the Chinese community for its support and contribution over the years.

Audio transcription is done by GPT and there may be errors. Listen to the full podcast:

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Xiao Feng and Vitalik recall their first visit to China, and the Chinese community supports the development of Ethereum

Xiao Feng:Thank you everyone, I want to tell you a secret first, 2025 is exactly the tenth anniversary of my meeting with Vitalik. We met for the first time in Shanghai in 2015, so at this moment, we had a lot of emotion when we talked again. Of course, some of the feelings involved the private level, so we won’t go into details in public. In 2015, Vitalik should have been in Shanghai for almost three months. Although I have been here many times, these three months should be a relatively long time.

So I especially want to know what impressions do you have about China, Shanghai, China’s Ethereum community, or China’s Ethereum developers from that time to now? This is a question that many Chinese developers want to know very much.

Vitalik:Yes, I remember the first time I came to China was in 2014. I went from Xi'an to Beijing, and then went to Shanghai, Hangzhou, and Shenzhen, and went to some places. At that time, I felt that there were already many companies, teams, developers and brands in China doing various things. I remember visiting trading platforms such as OKCoin and Huobi and found that they have more employees than the largest trading platforms in the United States. And there were many bitcoin miners, who were in the transition from FPGA to ASIC at that time, about 2013 to 2014.

I remember one time I went to Shenzhen and saw a particularly large mine in the suburbs, with a large number of mining machines. At that time, I already felt that China's computing power was very strong, and various teams were actively promoting the development of Bitcoin and blockchain.

At that time, I noticed that these teams, projects and companies in China are very large, but almost no one abroad knows their existence and has no cognition at all. At that time, internationally, basically everyone only knew Ethereum and miners, but China's ecosystem was already doing a lot of deeper things.

I remember in 2015 you and some other companies had already started doing something really interesting. Since 2015, the Chinese community has made many important early contributions to the development of Ethereum. I really thank you for starting support at that early stage.

I still remember you bought a lot of tokens from the Ethereum Foundation. The foundation really needed this money at that time, and it can be said that it survived with that money. Later, I also felt that the Chinese community became more and more complex and diverse, and everyone began to make efforts in many different directions, such as protocol research, cryptography research, and formula algorithm research.

In fact, it can be said that in 2015, there were really no particularly interesting blockchain projects in other places except Israel and San Francisco. But in 2016, I still remember that you had done many projects. Now you can see that there are many excellent research teams doing ZK (zero knowledge proof), AI and other directions, which all show that the quality of the community has become very high.

How to learn Chinese in one year and give a speech in Chinese

Xiao Feng:I told Vitalik the day before yesterday that our conversation will be in Chinese, hahaha. I just recalled that at the beginning of 2015, when we were together, he actually couldn't speak a single Chinese sentence. But one day he told me that he was going to start learning Chinese. A year later, it was about August 2016. In September of that year, Wanxiang Blockchain held a "Blockchain Week" in Shanghai, and he was our main guest.

I contacted him in advance in August and said that if you have a PPT, please send me a copy first. I can find someone to translate it into Chinese and English so that participants can better understand. But he told me that no, he would write PPT in Chinese and give speeches in Chinese. It took only a year and I was very curious, how did you not only learn to speak Chinese, but also write speeches in Chinese in such a short time? This is actually much more difficult than simply saying it.

Of course I also recalled that in May 2016, we went to New York, San Francisco and London together. I remember in a taxi in New York, Vitalik, me, and Shenbo of distributed capital, the three of us chatted in the car. At that time, Shen Bo and I were discussing something in Chinese. Before we finished talking, Vitalik took out his cell phone and asked me, "Does the word you just said mean this?" This is how he learned Chinese, and he learned it little by little.But I still want to hear how you learned Chinese so quickly?

Vitalik:I've actually tried how to learn a new language many times. My first step is usually to use an audio course called Pimsleur, which comes in many languages, with 90 single episodes per course and 30 minutes per episode. They start teaching from the most basic level, for example, the first lesson is "Hello", "I am in the United States", and "I am in China", and the content of each lesson will gradually become complicated.

The course method is to listen, follow up, and answer questions repeatedly. During the whole process, you will keep talking, repeating continuously, and gradually mastering the basic expression.

Later I added the "Recognition of Characters" part because Chinese not only needs to be able to speak, but also need to understand the concept of Chinese characters, which is more complicated than many other languages. I used a memory card APP to learn 20 Chinese characters every day. The system will repeatedly test whether you remember the meaning and pronunciation of these characters. Just continue practicing and accumulate slowly.

The only truly effective way to learn next is to communicate with people. Whether it is voice or chat software, you can say and write more whenever you have the opportunity. I remember when I was traveling in some cities in China, I would go to see the signs of every street because they had Chinese and pinyin on them. Through the continuous accumulation of this daily scene, I can learn new things every day.

About one or two years later, the most important thing is to put yourself in a language environment that is all Chinese so that you can constantly understand more content and practice more expressions. You are in this environment every day, and you will naturally become more and more proficient.

How do you view the contribution and emotions of Chinese developers to Ethereum?

Xiao Feng:I still remember that in January 2016, Wanxiang Blockchain and Deloitte Accounting Firm held the first Ethereum hackathon in Shanghai, when more than 100 people flew from all over the world to attend the conference, most of whom were Chinese, coming from Beijing or the southwest. But there are also some international participants, such as a high school student from Italy, who made a special trip to Shanghai to participate. He came alone, and we temporarily formed a team for him on the spot, but their team won the first prize.

Later, the high school student found our Wanxiang Blockchain and asked if he could join our team. He said he did not plan to return to Italy. We advised him at the time to at least finish high school first and then consider the future after getting into college. As a result, a year later, he returned to Europe to participate in a project called LTA, and later became the technical backbone of the project.

So, I want to tell this story: China's developer community has made a lot of contributions in Ethereum's community construction, technology development and marketing promotion since 2015, 2016, and 2017, and they also have a very deep affection for Ethereum. This is not just a technical investment, but more of a deep love.

I remember that when you gave a speech on stage at the forum of Wanxiang Blockchain in 2016, the popularity of you on site had already regarded you as a star, and it was even more enthusiastic than the cheers now. So next, I want to represent the Ethereum community in China and the developers in China. Whether they are developing directly on Ethereum now or not, everyone really hopes to hear you or the Ethereum Foundation be able to express some ideas.

How do you hope to support Chinese developers and help them better play a role in the Ethereum ecosystem, build communities, and develop applications?

Vitalik:Yes, I think one of the very important points is that we have actually solved a lot of the information gap. In the past, many things were unknown to communities like China, India, and Latin America, but now this situation has improved greatly.

For example, during the three days I came here this time, I met many community activities and organizers, who have already had a deep understanding of issues such as account abstraction and consensus algorithms. This shows that our information connection is getting better.

In addition, we recently did a project called Deep Funding. This project is an open competition. Anyone who can provide a good AI model and answer community questions can get rewards. I met a participant at another event last year and am now working on a project like this. This connection is becoming more common and has had many positive effects.

As for what we need most now, it is actually more specific "applications". But sometimes I don't like the word "apply" because it's too broad. For example, Facebook is also called applications, Tencent is also called applications. If Ethereum is only summarized by "apps", it is actually difficult to reflect the unique value of this industry.

I would rather see more people pushing in some sub-sectors, such as DeFi (including real assets such as RWA), decentralized social, information finance, etc. It does not mean that one hundred people need to do an application together, but it is distributed in different directions, with twenty or thirty in-depth promotion talents in each direction, so that the community will be more interesting and more powerful in development.

In fact, there are already many teams working in communities, discussing topics, organizing activities, and attracting developers to participate. These are things that are very encouraged. The Ethereum Foundation also has many local community support programs. For example, we will provide different forms of support for the various activities you have seen in the past few days — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — 

Our foundation’s goal is not to control the Ethereum ecosystem, but to promote its own growth. The ideal state for us is that if we do something today, we will no longer need to do these things in the future, because the ecology is already strong enough and autonomous enough.

Another important point is about L1 (Layer 1) development. In fact, everyone can start this by themselves, without knowing who they are particularly good at, nor do they need approval from the foundation. As long as you have enthusiasm and ability, you can participate directly.

We are working to solve another problem recently, which is about the definition and promotion of the L2 decentralized standards (stage 0, stage 1, stage 2). Many L2 projects now claim to be decentralized, but the standards are not clear and more of marketing methods. We hope to use a clear set of technical standards to judge, such as meeting certain security requirements and technical specifications, and they can be considered as a real stage 2 decentralized network.

This method can make the entire ecosystem more fair and make it easier for newcomers and small teams to participate.

We also have the same idea when developing L1. Now our researcher Justin Drake is advancing a project called Beam Chain, which can be said to be an attempt at Ethereum POS 2.0. In the past decade, we have done a lot of research on POS (Proof of Stake), and now we have a deeper understanding of algorithms, quantum security resistance, and game theory. We hope to bring these results together in a new L1 experimental project so that teams around the world can participate.

There are now at least 7 candidate teams of Beam Chain, and I even know that teams from Shanghai Jiaotong University and some domestic universities are also carrying out related research. If anyone is interested in this direction, I highly recommend you pay attention and participate.

The problem facing L1 research is that if you don’t know people in the relevant group, even if you have good skills, it will be difficult to participate. This is a problem we particularly want to solve. Therefore, Beam Chain's R&D will adopt a completely open approach to attract more new teams to participate in the construction from scratch, so that the basic layer of Ethereum can evolve in the long run.

How can blockchain break through the "impossible triangle"? When will the "WeChat-level" application appear?

Xiao Feng:Haha, yes, after you just finished speaking, I actually have three questions I want to discuss with you. The first problem is that everyone knows that there is a theory called "the impossible triangle of blockchain"  — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — This is not just a problem with blockchain. Many other systems, such as the exchange rate mechanism, also have similar logic, which is essentially a mathematical problem.

So how can blockchain significantly improve performance and scalability while ensuring decentralization and security? If efficiency and scalability cannot be broken through, it will not be able to support large-scale applications. From the perspective of cost and user experience, it seems that solving this triangle problem on a flat surface will not work.

So my personal point of view is that to this day, I still believe that only the hierarchical architecture proposed by Ethereum, that is, the way L1 and L2, is the best solution to this "impossible triangle". You just talked about the relationship between L1 and L2.

But next I want to ask another question — —How to solve the problem of “ease of use”? That is, the threshold for using this technology is minimized, the cost is minimized, and the experience is maximized. Because only when it is truly easy to use can a new high-tech product or service be adopted by a wider population.

Our industry has been asking a question: When will "killer applications" appear in the blockchain field? It's the kind of application that has large-scale users. The prerequisite for large-scale applications must be higher performance, lower cost, and stronger scalability.

Just like the computer system evolved from the original DOS command line operating system to the graphical interface and then to the mobile Internet APP, it gradually lowered the threshold for use. If we still use the DOS command line today, I'm afraid there will not be hundreds of millions of people in this world using computers. So after Microsoft launched the graphics operating system, the number of users expanded from millions to hundreds of millions and billions. In the end, the popularity of the mobile Internet allowed one finger to complete operations, which reached the scale of more than 5 billion Internet users around the world today.

So what I want to ask is: Although our current layered architecture is good, the threshold for "easy to use" is still too high. When will the "APP moment" of blockchain appear? In other words, behind a complex Web3 system, it can be accessed by ordinary users without perception through a super APP, just like WeChat - no matter how complex the system is, users can use it with just a click of the icon.

When will this "WeChat-level" blockchain experience appear? I think that will be the real node for the explosion of killer applications. What do you think?

Vitalik:Yes, I think it will take a lot of time to achieve that moment. We are indeed improving, but there are still some technical issues that have not been completely resolved.

As I mentioned in my speech this morning, Ethereum is still facing scalability challenges. You may remember that in my speech in 2015, I mentioned that the development of blockchain faces four technical difficulties: the first is scalability, the second is POS (proof of stake), the third is privacy protection (Privacy), and the fourth is security.

Now, the zero-knowledge proof (ZK) area is developing rapidly and its scalability has also improved significantly. The POS mechanism has been successfully launched, but there is still room for further optimization; in terms of security, we should not only pay attention to the security of the protocol itself, but also the security of user accounts.

For example, the way users manage their assets on the chain in the past had two extreme choices: one was to completely self-host, and save private keys on computers, mobile phones, and even paper. This was very decentralized, but it was too complex and dangerous for most people, and it was even quite difficult for me.

Another way is to use centralized services, but this brings about trust issues. For example, the storm of MT.Gox and FTX are obvious examples.

So our current focus is on how to find a better balance between the two. For example, we now have a series of solutions such as Multi-sig, Account Abstraction, and ZK Email, all to improve user experience and reduce security risks.

Going back to the "APP Moment" you just mentioned, I think that starting from the four goals we set in 2015, we have achieved about 50% to 70% today. As long as we solve the remaining technical problems, the application will definitely come.

Why do I believe so? Because we have seen some cases, such as Worldcoin now has 10 million users, and institutions such as Sony, Kraken, and Deutsche Bank have also deployed L2 on Ethereum. There are also many countries, such as Argentina, Turkey, and some regions in Southeast Asia, where a large number of users are using stablecoins, ETH, and DeFi services.

All these indicate that the infrastructure is close to ready. As long as the final user experience bottleneck can be opened up and developers are willing to invest, killer applications are completely possible.

So I'm still optimistic. We will eventually usher in that "APP moment". OK.

How to make L2 lighter and easier to build: sink the "dirty life" to L1, and L2 pays for the fee

Xiao Feng:You just mentioned that traditional large institutions like Deutsche Bank have also begun to build second-tier (L2) on Ethereum. We also launched Hashtag Chain last December, an Ethereum-based L2. But in the process of building HushKey Chain, I always have a feeling — — —The cost of making an L2 chain is still very high compared to developing an APP.

For example, if you want to build an L2 from scratch, it might take 20 engineers and it takes a whole year. You not only need to build the chain itself, but also build a browser, wallet, development tools, etc. It is far from being as simple as "writing a chain". During this chain operation, the cost of technical operation and maintenance alone may reach millions of dollars each year.

Of course I know that L2 cannot be as cheap, fast, and low-cost as a mobile app, but if you think about it from the perspective of others, the barrier is really too high for those who want to start the L2 project from scratch. They will recruit 20 professional developers and solve various integration and operation and maintenance problems.

So I now have a "whimsical" suggestion: Can these "dirty and hard work" be as low as possible to sink to L1? That is to say, L1 provides more basic capabilities, making L2 itself lighter, thinner and easier to develop. In this way, there is no need to invest so much manpower, time and resources like HushKey to build an L2.Do you think it is possible? When will it be realized?

Vitalik:We are actually doing this already. You can give some specific examples.

One of the high cost sources of L2 now is integration. In other words, application developers on L2 usually need to access various basic services, such as Oracle, Filecoin, identity systems, etc., which require separate deployment and management.

Then what we are doing now is to make the connection between L2 and L1 more efficient. I also mentioned this topic this morning. for example:

The first step is to improve the communication efficiency between L1 and L2.At present, it will take about a week to submit the status from L2 to L1. We hope to shorten it to an hour first and finally reach 12 seconds. This will greatly reduce the latency of data transmission.

The second is that L1 introduces an opcode called L1SLOAD, which means that the EVM on L2 can directly read the data on L1.For example, if each L2 needs to deploy an Oracle independently, it is actually a waste of resources. But if you can directly read Oracle information on L1, you can share data and reduce duplicate construction.

Another example is wallet.If we want users to support Account Abstraction, such as users can freely change private keys, switch signature algorithms, etc., the current approach is to send transaction update settings on each L2 every time, which is very troublesome. But if we deploy these key account information on L1, we only need to change it once in L1 and each L2 can read the state synchronously, this problem will be solved.

This is also the concept of "Keystore Wallet" I proposed - the core status of the user's wallet is saved in L1, and all L2 can be read directly, truly realizing the shared account structure.

So, as long as we can design the interface between L1 and L2 well, L2 can become lighter, and developers do not need to re-create wheels.

Moreover, this model can bring an additional benefit: we can promote the emergence of a "L1 and L2 hybrid apps". These applications are no longer exclusive to L1 or L2, but can use two layers of data and services at the same time to achieve a more powerful combination of functions.

Xiao Feng:If L1 can undertake more "dirty, tiring, and hard work", it is indeed a core issue that everyone criticizes now. Because many people currently say that L2 creates a lot of value, but these values ​​are not fed back to L1. L1 provides the infrastructure, but does not capture the value it deserves.

If L1 can provide more basic services to make L2 lighter and easier to use, then L2 should pay for these services and return part of the value to L1. This is not only technically reasonable, but also a mechanism for "value reflux" in economic models. Being able to do this is definitely good news for the entire Ethereum ecosystem.

You mentioned the issue of decentralization just now. Now some projects are decentralized for decentralization. If you put a photo, you say that you are "native in Ethereum" and "decentralized". But when it comes to the application layer, the problem becomes much more complicated.

For example, for example, the RWA (Real World Assets) you mentioned, it is essentially impossible to completely decentralize the real assets. Because any RWA issuance is almost legally considered a securities issuance, it must involve the issuer, operator, approval process and regulatory authorities, and there must be a centralized component in this.

So I think we need to be realistic. At the infrastructure level, Ethereum must remain decentralized, open, and without permission. But at the application level, decentralization is not omnipotent. The key is to find the balance between "minimizing trust" and "maximizing efficiency", rather than sticking to some form.

Discussion on the scope of application of "decentralization" and "centralization"

Xiao Feng:The issuance of a securities asset will naturally involve the issuer, operator, approver and regulator, and there will definitely be partial centralization, or some degree of centralization elements. If we want to combine blockchain with traditional finance and build new financial infrastructure with Ethereum or other blockchain systems, we must face this reality.

Finance is strictly regulated because it has strong negative externalities. In the traditional financial field, the so-called "cutting leeks" behavior is illegal because it reduces social welfare, creates risks and unfairness, and therefore requires supervision. This negative externality, once introduced into the blockchain world, cannot be ignored.

As the integration of blockchain and the real world deepens, I think it is reasonable to "layer" the system. As an infrastructure, Ethereum L1 must stick to decentralization. Just like the basic protocol of the Internet (such as the IP protocol) is open source and does not require permission, anyone using the IP protocol to build a network does not need to obtain authorization from others. This openness is the basis for the development of the Internet.

The same is true for blockchain technology. As an underlying protocol, its core value lies in open source, license-free, and decentralization. But when it comes to the application layer, the situation is different. Internet applications are essentially centralized. The Web3 world does not necessarily have to copy this structure, but the rationality of centralization in certain fields cannot be ignored.How do you view this balance of "centralization vs decentralization", especially at the application level?

Vitalik:Yes, at the application level, if we involve issues such as real economic activities, relationships between people, etc., then it is impossible to be completely decentralized or completely trustless.

Why do you say so?Because many behaviors in the real world cannot be proven by cryptography. For example, if I want to sell you a mobile phone, you first transfer me 0.5 ETH through Ethereum, and then I send the mobile phone to you through DHL. After you receive the phone, you will confirm the transaction on the chain.

But the problem is that during this process, the link simply cannot verify whether I actually sent my phone. You can't use cryptography to prove that "I put my phone in the package" or "DHL did take the phone away."

Perhaps in the future, we can use some very advanced zero-knowledge proof (ZK) technologies, such as proving that I did hand over my phone to DHL, or DHL issued a verifiable logistics proof on-chain (such as the ZK + TLS Notary method) — ——But even so, you still have to trust DHL and you must believe that I really put my phone in. Such problems are widely present in the real world and are an area that cryptography cannot fully cover.

Of course, the role of blockchain and cryptography is to minimize the need for this "trust". Because when the threshold for trust is high, only large institutions that are widely trusted can participate, and ordinary people are excluded, which is not good for fairness.

Through blockchain technology, what we can do is to give more people the right to participate. For example, RWA (real world asset) can be issued in the form of tokens, for example, I issue a Filecoin token, with a total of 1 million units. I only issued 1 million on the chain, and I can publicly verify it on the system without sending it more. Through ZK technology, it can also be proved to the chain that I do have US dollar or Hong Kong dollar assets corresponding to these 1 million tokens in a certain bank account.

For example, if a government wants to issue digital identity IDs, the public may be worried that it will issue "ghost IDs" secretly to manipulate elections or social platforms. If these IDs are posted on the chain and the total amount is visible, the public can confirm that the government has issued only one million, instead of two million. This mechanism can greatly reduce the cost of trust in the government.

This mechanism of reducing trust can improve efficiency on the one hand, and on the other hand, it also enhances fairness on the other hand. Because high trust thresholds mean that small organizations or individuals are difficult to participate, only large institutions with widespread trust can enter. Once a verification mechanism can be used instead of trust, more people will have opportunities, which will make the economy and society more open and fair.

Of course, in some small cases, such as the verification of math competition questions, it can indeed achieve complete decentralization — For example, if I design a smart contract, if you can submit a valid ZKP (zero knowledge proof) that satisfies a certain formula, I will give you a reward; otherwise, I will not give it. This type of scenario is suitable for fully automatic, verifiable logical closed loops.

But in 99% of the real world economic activity, this idealized completely decentralized mechanism cannot be achieved.

Xiao Feng:Yes, I agree very much. This is actually something we must always remind ourselves when developing Web3 or blockchain applications — —Not everything can be solved with decentralization.

Of course, we should try to use the parts that can be solved with decentralization. Because it can reduce trust costs and improve system equity, efficiency and transparency. However, for those scenarios that need to connect to the physical world and require behavior verification, such as mobile phone transactions, physical logistics, etc., the on-chain mechanism cannot be fully covered at present.

The example you just mentioned is very good, we still have to trust DHL to ship the phone, and we have to believe that it has indeed completed the delivery.

So we should not be obsessed with "everything must be 100% decentralized from the bottom layer to the application layer." Decentralization is not an end, it is just a means to achieve a more efficient, fairer and lower-cost economic system. We should use it well, but we should also accept its boundaries and limitations.

Now, Ethereum has entered the stage of hierarchical architecture, and I believe this is the prerequisite for blockchain to move towards large-scale applications.

How do Chinese and American developers work together when large-scale applications are launched?

Xiao Feng:Well, now this new stage has arrived. Vitalik also mentioned earlier that many key technologies, including the continuous optimization of L2, are being rapidly advancing. We are also gradually approaching the threshold for large-scale application of blockchain.

From the Internet, AI to cryptocurrencies, we can see an interesting phenomenon: the top 15 Internet platforms in the world are basically Chinese companies except for the United States. The same is true for AI big models. In addition to the United States, China has also proven to have R&D capabilities, such as through DeepSync, Huawei, Baidu, etc. But like Japan, India, the EU, and the UK, there is no competitive big model yet. In other words, technical capabilities are not distributed evenly around the world.

I think blockchain will have a similar pattern. Although developers are spread all over the world, they are mainly concentrated in two language circles: the English circle (with the United States as its core) and the Chinese circle (with China as its core). The scale of English developers is indeed larger, but Chinese developers also form another huge ecological group.

Then the question is: If we really want to push Ethereum into the stage of large-scale application, how should Chinese developers, product managers, operators and users participate? In fact, Chinese people have very strong abilities in the application layer. They have won in the "volume" since the Internet era, creating a large number of excellent product managers and platform operators.

For example, more than half of the world's top ten digital asset trading platforms are founded or operated by Chinese people. Why? Because the technology essence of Bitcoin on all trading platforms is the same, but customer experience and user service are clearly better at Chinese people.

So if we believe that Ethereum is entering an application-oriented development stage, how can we better leverage the advantages of Chinese-speaking developers? Not only developers, but also operators and users. The Chinese Internet users themselves have more than 1.4 billion, and together with Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan and overseas Chinese, it is a huge market. Do we have strategies for this group to motivate them to develop applications and promote adoption on Ethereum?

Vitalik:Yes, this is a very critical issue.

first,I think the Ethereum Foundation should not "directly bear" the promotion of applications. We don’t want everyone to rely on foundations to promote ecological development in five or ten years. We also hope that every local community around the world can grow up, have the ability to promote independently, and organize, incubate and implement various projects by themselves.

In recent years, we have noticed that the developer community in China, Asia, and even Africa have developed, and have established more and more communications with our foundation, especially in promoting local developer organizations, project incubation and talent training.

There are two reasons why we are reluctant to do everything:

The first reason is to avoid centralization.A healthy ecosystem cannot rely entirely on a centralized institution. We hope Ethereum can evolve itself, rather than the foundation leading the way forward for every application or project.

The second reason is limited resources.You may not believe it, but the foundation holds even less ETH now than Justin Sun (laughs). Our budget is very limited, and many organizations in the community have actually better financial strength than ours.

Moreover, fundamentally, applications can produce self-health. If you make a valuable application, you can attract users, gain investment, and make profits. Therefore, we are more concerned about areas where "if the foundation does not do it, others will not do it."

For example, L1's core R&D, ZK Email, Account Abstraction, ZK Wrapper and other infrastructure components. These are the directions of high barriers and low business returns, so we are willing to provide more support.

However, for the development of application development such as DApps and wallets, they are actually profitable and no longer need to be promoted by the foundation personally.

So our strategy is: focus on supporting the growth of local communities. We hope that more developers can understand the core concepts and architecture composition of Ethereum, such as L1, L2, ZK, client, etc., and guide them to explore in specific application scenarios.

We have no way to build and manage all communities around the world, so we need to work with local organizations to build their own developer ecosystem in their own cultural and linguistic context.

We have taken action in this regard. Compared with two years ago, the exchanges and cooperation with Asian developers have been much smoother.

We also encourage everyone to actively express their needs. If you encounter problems or have specific needs during the project process, our foundation is willing to provide support. We hope that in the next one or two years, every city will have a stronger developer community and nurture a new generation of core builders of Ethereum.

This change has actually begun, and we believe it can develop better and broader.

Ethereum should set up an office in Hong Kong and restart Mainland Hackers and Workshop

Xiao Feng:Yes, as you said just now, the foundation focuses on doing things that application developers cannot do independently, such as ZK (zero knowledge proof), Layer 1 protocol research, etc., which is right. Because the foundation should have a clear positioning. When they build on Ethereum, they may indeed need the support and help of the foundation and the Ethereum community to understand how to do better on Ethereum. This help is not necessarily funding, but more likely to be technical counseling, resource docking or even exposure channels.

So today we held this conference at ETH Action, and we also invited representatives of the Ethereum community from Asian countries, hoping that there will be such a gathering of the Asian Ethereum community every year. You can talk about how to promote the application and technology of Ethereum in Asia. This is a good platform in itself.

On this basis, I have two suggestions to propose to the Ethereum Foundation:

The first suggestion is,I hope the Ethereum Foundation can set up an office in Hong Kong. This is very helpful for the Ethereum community throughout Asia, including application developers. This office is not only a symbolic existence, but also a contact window that can actually provide technical consultation, guidance resources, and exposure opportunities. Many developers don't necessarily need the foundation to pay, but they do need a place to seek support and connect, especially for some startup projects.

In fact, one of the purposes of our two-day meetings is to help these developers and projects increase exposure, establish connections, and find cooperative resources. This is the first suggestion, and you saw that everyone had already expressed their support with applause, haha.

The second suggestion is,I think the foundation, including you, should return to mainland China and restart face-to-face interactions with Chinese developers. You did a very good job in the past. I remember that you often came to Shanghai in 2017 and 2018, but later it was interrupted due to the epidemic.

Now that the epidemic is over, it is a great time to resume this interaction. For example, the foundation can consider restarting hackathons and Workshop in the mainland; you can also go to various places to communicate face to face with developers. In October this year, we will hold the 11th Blockchain Global Summit in Shanghai. You have participated in the previous seven consecutive sessions in the past, and we also welcome you to participate again.

We are very willing to assist and promote this at Wanxiang Blockchain. We hope to restart Ethereum's Workshop and Hackathon in several cities in the Mainland. This form is not only an activity, but also a substantial guidance to developers, helping them master Ethereum technology and create more practical applications. These are the two suggestions I want to give to the foundation and you today.

Vitalik:OK, thank you very much, Mr. Xiao. Thank you for your support for the Ethereum community, foundation and the entire blockchain ecosystem over the years. I am really grateful.

Xiao Feng:OK, thank you everyone. That’s all for our conversation today. What I can guarantee is that the two of us had no rehearsal or communication before this.

Vitalik:Hahaha, OK, thank you.